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Author Topic: 5 star game, until the required Gomoku board game, now 1 star  (Read 35055 times)
Marv
little rusty robot

Posts: 1


« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 09:18:39 pm »

I agree with Occams Razor. This is just plain annoying. I've tried about 50 times so far and I'm getting nowhere. All the other puzzles that I've encountered are fixed (that is, nothing changes, you just keep plugging away until you solve it); this one keeps changing. It's simply not the kind of puzzle that I'm good at and I admit that (so all of you who are good at these things can keep your gloating remarks to yourselves). The YouTube hint is useless, since the starting point keeps changing (as does your opponent's moves). And it doesn't let me build parallel rows. Even when there are two spaces between my pieces, it will block me.

Even though I've shelled out my money for the game, I'm ready to abandon it.
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Limaria
citizen robot
**
Posts: 8


« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 12:08:30 am »

Hmmm.... apart from what I've already said, maybe this will be of some help: You don't have to start in the middle. Starting in a corner is a way to early break the other bots fav tactics and maybe makes things less cluttered. Also, take your time. Don't let the bot rush you just because he doesn't have to think.
Below are two more screenshots. Again I won by getting the other bot into a horizontal/vertical game (red line) although there would have also been the diagonal line as a double bind (white dots) in the first one. I understand that this game can seem confusing, be frustrating and is different from the other puzzles but it's not impossible to solve  Smiley


* machwin4small.gif (49.19 KB, 283x278 - viewed 1150 times.)

* machwin8small.gif (47.12 KB, 283x272 - viewed 1232 times.)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 05:11:52 pm by Limaria » Logged
XQuest
little robot
*
Posts: 7


« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2009, 06:23:10 am »

Even though I beat this after numerous attempts, I think they need to make a patch for this.
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bgthigfist
citizen robot
**
Posts: 12



« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2009, 07:24:22 pm »

I probably spent 2-3 hours over the course of two days on this puzzle. As I was very often oblivious to the computer's impending win, I found it particularly frustrating that the game board would disappear immediately. I felt as if I might have a better chance of gaining insight into where I was going wrong if the board would stick around until I clicked (or something) so I could better learn from my mistakes.

I'm not even sure how I won, the time that I did.

I agree.  The damn board would disappear and I couldn't see how he won.

To those of you who are saying how 'simple' this puzzle is, let me say this.  My day job is as a psychologist who does cognitive testing, and it is normal for there to be variations in how everybody's brains process different types of information.  Some people have good spatial skills, some have good non-verbal reasoning, some have strengths in verbal reasoning, etc...   I am considered a fairly smart person and have completed several college degrees, yet my brain doesn't do this type of reasoning very well.  I actually walked away from this game for over 2 weeks because of this puzzle and went back to FPS gaming.  So please don't make the mistake of denigrating the original poster, just because his/her brain isn't good at something that you are good at.   That person probably has some skills that you lack.

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Limaria
citizen robot
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Posts: 8


« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2009, 11:15:27 pm »

Well, as far as I'm concerned, I was just trying to help. Smiley

Edit: If there's a way to extract and re-implement a specific savegame I'd be more than happy to share one from right after winning this.  Smiley
@ bgthigfist: From a purely scientific point of view, I think it would be interesting to know the male : female "frustration ratio". This is not my field but from experience I'd say that this puzzle favours the female way of thinking. Any thoughts on that (I'd be really curious)?  Smiley
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 01:00:12 am by Limaria » Logged
Limaria
citizen robot
**
Posts: 8


« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2009, 03:35:58 pm »

Alright, I just wiped my files and played again to the point at the bar (no spoilers). So here's the link to a *.zip file with a savegame from right after beating the robot at the Gomoku game with the bolts already in your inventory: http://rapidshare.com/files/305980140/MachinariumGomokuSavegame.zip

I've included a ReadMe that also again contains how I beat the bot (for those who might want to try again themselves). For those generally not reading ReadMes, here's one thing that might be important: I play the German version of the game so you might want to make a backup of your own file. They should be compatible but on the tiny off chance they arent you can go back again.

Enjoy the rest of the game  Smiley
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 03:48:49 pm by Limaria » Logged
LuckyMachinarium
citizen robot
**
Posts: 8


« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2009, 04:30:20 pm »

It was challenging for sure, but after about ten to fifteen tries you start to figure out how to win. I have never played a game like this before, but I do play chess, and I found that once you realize how the computer is playing all you need to do is plan a few moves ahead to where you can get a situation where you will have two rows of three intersect at some point down the line. As long as you keep a gap of two in there until you are ready the computer won't block you. Eventually you will beat it and figure it out. I like the challenge of it. I am glad it wasn't too easy.

I just finished the game, and have to say that it was the absolute best game I have played since MYST came out. Everything was perfect! The puzzles, the unique graphics, the storyline, the touching ending, the amazing creativity, and even the level of frustration was perfect! I had several points where I was stuck for a couple of days. But I am glad I didn't use any hints and eventually broke through. What an awesome experience this way, really unique. This is clearly one of the best games of all time, in my opinon.
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Ericb
little rusty robot

Posts: 1


« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2010, 04:36:20 am »

As a few enlightened posters said here, not only is it a terrible idea to have a genre shift midway through the game by turning it into a frustrating board game (which I do not nor have I ever enjoyed). Once defeated, the board immediately disappears from the screen, stopping me from learning at all of what I did wrong.

There is challenge and then there is torture.

What one the poster said about different people having different kinds of reasoning skills certainly applies here. I'm not skilled in board games at all and it is definitely not one I plan on acquiring any time soon.

I've seen many, many complaints all over the net about this board game bit, so anyone dissing the ones like me who were really frustrated about this particular moment in Machinarium are really being inconsiderate. Truly, one possesses skills the other lacks.

As both an actor and programmer (a combination I'm finding out to be very rare), I consider myself fairly intelligent in both regards, and yet I do not have the slightest interesting in mastering nor playing board games casually. Instead of hating on them, I just avoid them as a matter of personal taste.

To have one inserted in an adventure game so intuitive as this one (as most of them really aren't...) is a really counter-intuitive move from the designer(s) part.

Real thanks to the person who made a savegame available, because it's on his/her account alone that I'm still willing to play this otherwise great game.
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divit
black cap brotherhood member
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Posts: 225



« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2010, 12:41:44 pm »

I liked this game and wouldn't mind seeing more in other games, next time they could be there as optional challenges?
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Zjeraar
citizen robot
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Posts: 18


« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2010, 05:18:29 pm »

Quote
I liked this game and wouldn't mind seeing more in other games, next time they could be there as optional challenges?

(SPOILER:)
Or how about introducing an alternative way to get the bolts? Like what was done in the greenhouse where the player can use the magnifying glass on the butterfly to get the code for the door so the player doesn't have to solve the three most difficult puzzles of the "fill-the-board"-challenge. This suits different types of players and also heightens the replayability of the game somewhat.
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lilianlai
little robot
*
Posts: 2


« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 06:30:55 am »

 Grin well it seems i'm quite lucky then. i beat it when the first time i played it.
but the 2nd time i failed. i donno if it requires more buttons on other places...
i think the tricky part here is try to place all your pieces as many as possible together in a big block so than u can combine 5 pieces in every direction that the computer is not be able to block u quickly enough.
like this: eg o is u and x is computer
.......
.ooox.
xooox.
xxooxx
...x..
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 06:32:52 am by lilianlai » Logged
divit
black cap brotherhood member
******
Posts: 225



« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 05:20:12 pm »

Maybe they should just make these puzzles so that they appear more a part of the game.

One of the main problems seems to be that people see it as an unnecessary extra which should be avoidable, so if Amanita want to keep these parts and silence complaints then it would be best to integrate them in more subtly rather than having a blatant distinction between the general point and click theme and the other game parts.

It wouldn't solve any problems for those who have trouble with the unusual parts, but there are a lot of other games like this and making this change might help make Amanita stand out even more.
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Zjeraar
citizen robot
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Posts: 18


« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2010, 06:00:18 pm »

Well, if the puzzles were left out, the game would feel way too short and might not be worth the price to some players.

A lot of games are included with puzzles like these (The Legend of Zelda series, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Tomb Raider), it's a way to extend gameplay. While some of these games do a good job at fitting in these kinds of puzzles, I do think most were integrated fairly well in Machinarium also. Either way, I wouldn't go so far as to call them a "blatant distinction".
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 06:02:01 pm by Zjeraar » Logged
divit
black cap brotherhood member
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Posts: 225



« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2010, 12:11:00 pm »

I only said 'Blatant distinction' because most (maybe all) of them involve bringing up a mini-screen for the game which separates it from the main screen. If there is a way of playing the games on the main screen, especially if it is still possible to interact with the rest of the screen in the normal way, then that might help avoid the minigame status which makes them look like they could/should be avoidable.

And with the Gomoku game it might help if there are more games like that - games where you play agaoinst an AI. I kept going back to that one after I'd passed, it would be nice if there were more like this Wink
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